Really!??

[OldIsGold]

I forgot where I saw it. The Italians had a manual version for sale in the late 1950s in several sizes.

[Bill DeShivs]

That's possible. The Italians often copied German knives.

[JulesVane]

Strange that the prices are certainly up on switchblades, but there are at least 5 German leverlocks and 2 Italian switchblades that aren't that high in price, currently available on eBay, that have sat there for months. Usually, when autos hit eBay, they sell quick. Nobody seems interested right now. (Not even the eBay "police").

[Tom19176]

IMG_2123.JPG (35 KiB) Viewed 6443 times

These are the SMKW ones Bill referred too.

[OldIsGold]

It was either Facebook or maybe Reddit. Someone said these were made in 1964 but the Italian manual version was from 1959. So did the Germans copy an Italian version?

[JulesVane]

The PUMA website makes it easy to date/age the range that I have. But, the even older ones with the MEDICI over STILETTO stamped on the bottom/rear bolster, don't have the numbers stamped into the lockback tab like these do, making it harder to date/age. But, if the MEDICI over STILETTO stamped models go back even further, I'd "think" they'd go back further than 1959. Of course, that's just my assumption.

[whippersnapper]

Sometime about 15 years ago, smallfoot or Dick Carrol, on talkblade, did a comparison of all the different styles of the Italian Medici type auto knives. It seems like there were a few different variations- 2 peice springs on some-different pin positions etc...It was interesting because I had quite a few back then. I don't recall if it was posted here on talkblade, sharper deals, or my old forum. It was worth the read if you can find it...I didn't have any luck in a couple quick searches.

I also seem to recall BillD saying at one time that he thought some were sold as kit knives. I could be remembering wrong because I don't remember any kits but he has been around longer than my collecting.

[button_man]

.
"Typical new Italian stilettos were going for about $45 then depending on length and scale material. That correlates to $80 today, well less than the going rate."

This depends on who is calculating price inflation (more accurately, loss of purchasing power). The "official" rate is usually somewhere between 2% and 3% per year.

Has your health insurance only gone up 2% per year for the past twenty years? How about auto repairs? Rents? Cable TV or streaming services? Restaurants? Concert tickets? Child care?

Let's take one example:

"According to the U.S. Bureau of Labor Statistics, prices for cigarettes are 262.67% higher in 2025 versus 2002 (a $13.13 difference in value).

Between 2002 and 2025: Cigarettes experienced an average inflation rate of 5.76% per year. This rate of change indicates significant inflation. In other words, cigarettes costing $5 in the year 2002 would cost $18.13 in 2025 for an equivalent purchase. Compared to the of 2.54% during this same period, inflation for cigarettes was significantly higher."

Yeah, and so were a lot of other things. That 2.54% "overall inflation rate" is a bunch of hogwash. I'm skeptical of figures like that being treated seriously in this discussion.

Moving briskly along to the issue of doubling or tripling prices by resellers...... people are quick to holler "gouging"
-- especially if they have never done the show circuit. Dealers haemorrhage money at every turn: gasoline, tolls, tires, car repairs, hotels, having to eat every meal at a restaurant (or take-out), table fees, accidental damage, display supplies, amateur and professional thieves who target the shows, insurance (if they can afford it), and a hundred tiny odds and ends that nickel-and-dime you to death. Plus the panic of realizing that you might not even meet expenses on your current show.

Sure, show prices are high. Anybody who thinks it's "easy money" should go ahead and try it sometime.

And let's not forget one of the most valuable services that can be offered in the marketplace: convenience.

Joints like McDonald's and KFC have not raked in untold billions of dollars by offering gourmet fare. They are not actually selling food; they are selling convenience. When a dealer buys your knife and then offers it for double what he paid, a lot of that extra cost covers the time and effort he has spent finding sources, taking pictures, writing up descriptions, and posting it all online. Oh, and let's not forget the not-infrequent hits that he takes by buying from an online source and getting stuck with defective knives..... plus covering shipping and insurance on anything he buys online.

And after all this, the guy doesn't deserve to turn a profit by offering an opportunity for buyers to enjoy the convenience of purchasing at a show or on a website that is putting something they want at their fingertips?

Personally, I feel entirely justified in charging a mark-up for a knife (or just about anything else) that I sell. If somebody says "I can get this cheaper online" then I will invite him to go right ahead; and I will remind him that maybe he'll be happy with his purchase, and maybe he won't. Maybe he'll get exactly what he was expecting, and maybe he won't. Maybe the seller will bend over backwards to address any complaints, and maybe he won't.

When I sell a knife, it's almost always in person. The buyer sees what he's getting.... he can pick it up, examine it, open & close it to see how well it works, and ask me anything he wants. He KNOWS he's not getting something that has a banana blade, fails to lock up, or whatever. He has a quality product at his fingertips. Convenience has market value.

Even if I sell something other than face-to-face, I describe the item in painstaking detail. If there is a condition issue, I'm straightforward about it. Since many, many sellers have descriptions that are purposely brief and / or vague, I feel that I am providing the customer with added value with my accurate and complete description, and I charge for that value.

Just wanted to play Devil's Advocate (not an unusual role for me, in case anyone hadn't noticed) and point out a few aspects of the situation that deserve a mention.
.

[Bill DeShivs]

The Italian Medici autos were sold as kits. The one in my picture in this thread was a kit.

[Bill DeShivs]

Used to be that standard dealer to retail markup was 40%. 25 years ago in the auto knife business it was at least 50%.
A major retailer recently suggested that 300% markup was now necessary on new knives.

[JulesVane]

Sometime about 15 years ago, smallfoot or Dick Carrol, on talkblade, did a comparison of all the different styles of the Italian Medici type auto knives. It seems like there were a few different variations- 2 peice springs on some-different pin positions etc...It was interesting because I had quite a few back then. I don't recall if it was posted here on talkblade, sharper deals, or my old forum. It was worth the read if you can find it...I didn't have any luck in a couple quick searches.

I also seem to recall BillD saying at one time that he thought some were sold as kit knives. I could be remembering wrong because I don't remember any kits but he has been around longer than my collecting.

Terry, you just jarred my memory about the kicksprings. Only 1 out of the 4 Italian auto models (stag) that I posted earlier, uses a double/side-by-side kickspring. The other 3 are singles. Of course, I'm not sure what this indicates, but sure is interesting.



...and, not sure if the guard pin is the pin you mentioned, but this particular knife also has an offset guard pin that makes the guards not perfectly centered like the other 3...

[OldIsGold]

The PUMA website makes it easy to date/age the range that I have. But, the even older ones with the MEDICI over STILETTO stamped on the bottom/rear bolster, don't have the numbers stamped into the lockback tab like these do, making it harder to date/age. But, if the MEDICI over STILETTO stamped models go back even further, I'd "think" they'd go back further than 1959. Of course, that's just my assumption.

So if the manual Italian bayo blade models were made in 1959, are the Germans older or did the Germans copy an Italian design?

[JulesVane]

I always thought the Italians copied the German Puma Medici. But, only what I had always thought. I've only heard of the Italians called "Medici Style". Certainly not claiming that I know positively.

[Bill DeShivs]

Doing a little research, the earliest Puma Medicis that I found were made in 1964.
I have an email to Puma asking when they were first produced.

[whippersnapper]

The Italian Medici autos were sold as kits. The one in my picture in this thread was a kit.

Glad to hear I remembered right you saying that.