Ain't got a clue....

Vagrant · Post by **Vagrant** » Wed Dec 20, 2006 6:36 am

I would call this an Arkansas Toothpick until I was corrected

http://eagletradingcompany.com/riflemans_knife.htm
It is very close but what takes it out of the "Toothpick" catagory are two things :
1 - The pommel design
2 - The point is turned up slightly
Many [most ?] Rifleman's Knives are single edge or the top edge is much more obtuse than the bottom edge.
Many "Rifleman's knives" are similar to a loooong "San Francisco Bowie"
http://www.idahoknifeworks.com/bowie.htm
To confuse things even more the "barrel rest" pommel is [VERY] unusual, a "Riflemans knife" dates to muzzle loaders and was meant to be used as a short sword after you fired you one shot.
https://secure.countywebsite.com/cgi-bi ... y_Code=SPC

Cryptomecanic · Post by **Cryptomecanic** » Wed Dec 20, 2006 6:49 pm

I would like to invite anyone who would like to be on the jury to go
to Search "Arkansas Toothpick"
and see what they come up with,
I'm not saying Mr Carrolls knife
deffinatly is an arkansas toothpick
but that it could be

Dick Carroll · Post by **Dick Carroll** » Wed Dec 20, 2006 10:24 pm

It does display traits of various knives. Don't think it ever changed shapes tho there's no way to say that truthfully. I have visions of camel jockeys and desert. It has home-made looks to it to me. But then, I've had it since 1973 and it has not been touched since then. I didn't make it. My neighbor I bought it from didn't make it. It was in relatively the same condition as it is now. Unfortunately, there is no mark of any kind and trying to identify by shape alone will make fools out of us all. Just never have seen anything that could have been out of the same batch or same forge with enough similarities to this one. I haven't ever really considered it for a valuable piece, just a little unusual.......now if somebody wants to tell me that ol' Jim B stuck a rushing Mexican off his death bed with it, that's a different story....
Dick

Cryptomecanic · Post by **Cryptomecanic** » Thu Dec 21, 2006 4:54 am

maybe its the knife he owned before
that one, that the Sherriff confiscated during Mardi Gras before the Colonel went to San Ann Tone

Dick Carroll · Post by **Dick Carroll** » Thu Dec 21, 2006 7:07 am

post sand bar, pre Alamo?/? hmmmm!

Vagrant · Post by **Vagrant** » Thu Dec 21, 2006 7:09 am

IF it was at the Alamo, I'd bet it was used by the other side

I don't bet money on anything but if I HAD to, MY money would be on Filipino late 40s - ?. The leather bound, wooden sheath is a pretty good clue, the way the guard joins the handle is also a hint, the guard itself is a weaker clue. NONE of this is "proof positive", but, taken togeather, just increases certain likelyhoods
Process of elemination:
Irish - no way
German - nein
French - nope
English - sorry
Italian - possible but doubtful
South American - possible
Mexican - possible
U.S. - possible [an ALL leather sheath would make that much more likely]
Filipino - strong possibility
Other S.E. Asian - also possible [Indonesia would be most likely]
Knowing the type of wood AND leather used on the sheath could narrow the possibilities [a lot] but still wouldn't prove anything for certain since the import/export of materials is centuries old

Cryptomecanic · Post by **Cryptomecanic** » Thu Dec 21, 2006 6:39 pm

Mr Carroll is there any way you might be able to find out more information from your old neighbor
or maybe one of his kids

Vagrant · Post by **Vagrant** » Thu Dec 21, 2006 8:02 pm

http://www.swordsoftheeast.com/index.as ... ProdID=103
Note:
blade-guard juncture
ferrule-guard-handle juncture
scabbard wood-leather style
all are hints [but NOT proof]

It could have been made by a Blacksmith in Vermont but NOT in a "Yankee" style

Dick Carroll · Post by **Dick Carroll** » Thu Dec 21, 2006 8:27 pm

CM, unfortunately, all have passed...

Cryptomecanic · Post by **Cryptomecanic** » Fri Dec 22, 2006 4:59 am

whats interesting about this arkansas toothpick is the sheath
http://www.silvereyeenterprises.com/se-knives4.html

Vagrant · Post by **Vagrant** » Fri Dec 22, 2006 6:52 am

I'll confess that I resort to terms like "thingy" and "doohicky" etc, at times

But, the two-part design would be called a scabbard and "frog" if it was a bayonet or other Military knife

Although a frog is usually smaller and attatches to the top of the scabbard, the terminology is "close enough for government work"

Cryptomecanic · Post by **Cryptomecanic** » Sat Dec 23, 2006 9:09 pm

But did you look at Bo? Randalls
Ark Toothpicks

Cryptomecanic · Post by **Cryptomecanic** » Sat Dec 23, 2006 9:26 pm

if Mr Carroll's Knife were acually
used for the purpose it was made
the guards may have been cut off so
they wouldent catch on clothes when
being drawn(it would be interesting
to see if there were any blood residue in the guard) anybody got
a black light

Cryptomecanic · Post by **Cryptomecanic** » Sat Dec 23, 2006 10:14 pm

Mr Carroll it might not hurt to have an Appraisor who belongs to the Antique Bowie Collectors Association take a look at both of those Knives, I'm sure that Mr Vagrant and I can agree that they are both Primitives but how old ?
somebody might be able to take one look and tell you who made them and
when

Dick Carroll · Post by **Dick Carroll** » Sat Dec 23, 2006 11:33 pm

Maybe one day when I find somebody that makes me feel different about it, but I just don't see it as a bowie.....It must look better in the pictures than what I see. Heheh...I still see people wearing robes and maybe riding camels....