More love for cheap switchblades

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Killgar
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More love for cheap switchblades

Post by Killgar »

EDIT: It is now 9/7/2022, and I wanted to add this disclaimer to this post.

I bought this knife on a whim, and I thought nothing of it. But since then I have seen these falsely branded, fake "AKC Italy" knives spread like a virus, infecting switchblade vendors who were previously trusted and who could be counted on to sell only genuine merchandise. I find this very troubling, and as a result I do not want to give any sort of positive review of these knives.

Let me be clear- I DO NOT in any way recommend or endorse these knives, and I now regret that I purchased one.

See my post on page 4 of this thread for more information regarding this matter.

end of EDIT.
Last edited by Killgar on Mon Dec 19, 2022 7:31 am, edited 3 times in total.
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NorthCarolinaDude
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Re: More love for cheap switchblades

Post by NorthCarolinaDude »

It's interesting for sure. I'd like to think it only can only be classified as "higher quality" over say a Frank B because it's mass-produced and most, if not all, by machines and not people. And that the real Italians have a more hands-on approach in their creation.

That used to be true, it seems. And now, Frank is apparently using laser cut blades and such with the "2.0" versions that have been showing up, and I can attest that the last 20 4mm version I picked up using these newer methods of production are, in fact, tighter and more "solid" than my older ones.

But I still have an affinity for the variance in quality you find in knives that are produced with a lot of manual effort. That way, when you pick up one that's been blessed by being put together by the right person on the right day, you can recognize and appreciate that. I've seen it with musical instruments too, when you get a smooth player, you can feel it.

That said, such concerns are disappearing in this new millennium. Seems we're seeing tighter tolerances produced easier through technology.

Is it a good thing? I'm not sure. But I can still appreciate the flaws found in things put together by human hands.

All that said, I'll likely get me one of these...keeps the miles off my more fragile Italians...and if I drop and break it it won't matter as I can always just buy another one, exactly like it. :)

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Re: More love for cheap switchblades

Post by djones »

I have the same knife and also the white fake pearl one. I like a lot. I think the fake pearl one with one piece handle slabs is a beauty. I feel the lock is a little weak. But a good knife. I get mine from DH gate. They have a lot of good fake stuff. Was there ever an Italian in this style?
Tom19176
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Re: More love for cheap switchblades

Post by Tom19176 »

First, nice knife and design. I feel the Italian ones are much better quality and as noted above the new Frank Bs are much improved. My negative comment ( and why I will NEVER buy one) is these are not mere copies that say " AKC" but rather COUNTERFIETS stealing the name of a real company there by hurting them financially and their reputation of quality.

I can deal with China knives using Italy on the blade, but when they use a real company's name or Bill D"s name on their productions, I can't support their crime....Those sites are loaded with those items and buying from them supports what they are doing.....
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JPD1998
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Re: More love for cheap switchblades

Post by JPD1998 »

I agree with Tom, I have two similar knives. They're great for the price and their quality can stand on their own merits without the fake logos.
When I received mine, my only complaint was the fake branding (but it rubs right off).

With that being said, the last 3 Frank B swing guards I bought ( current production) are beautifully made and are in a class of their own.
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Killgar
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Re: More love for cheap switchblades

Post by Killgar »

I've had some time to spend with this knife, and I really can't get over the high level of quality for the price.

I recently imposed a rule on myself about not buying myself any more knives, I have too many already, and I don't like having a bunch of knives around that I either can't carry for legal reasons, or have no practical use for, or both. And I've been pretty good about sticking to this rule.

But I saw this knife, and I really liked the design of the blade, the overall size of the knife, the screw pivot, stainless steel liners, and the fact that it's a button-fired side-opener (my preferred type of switchblade). And for $25.50, I figured it wouldn't bother me too much if it turned out to be junk and I couldn't get a refund.

So I took the gamble.

Tom19176 wrote: Sun Jun 26, 2022 11:04 am First, nice knife and design. I feel the Italian ones are much better quality and as noted above the new Frank Bs are much improved. My negative comment ( and why I will NEVER buy one) is these are not mere copies that say " AKC" but rather COUNTERFIETS stealing the name of a real company there by hurting them financially and their reputation of quality.

I can deal with China knives using Italy on the blade, but when they use a real company's name or Bill D"s name on their productions, I can't support their crime....Those sites are loaded with those items and buying from them supports what they are doing.....
Tom, are you saying that the overall design of this knife is an Italian design? I've never seen an Italian switchblade with a blade like this. If there are Italian switchblades of this exact design, I don't know if that would have influenced my purchase, especially with the bad luck I've had buying genuine Italian switchblades.

As I said in my opening post, I was under the impression that this knife is modeled after the Russian knife pictured below, which has been around for awhile now.

In any event, I totally respect your position on the fake "ACK" marking. We all draw our own line regarding what we will buy and what we won't. For me, in this particular case, the logo didn't go far enough to put this knife in the "won't" column. I have bigger qualms about just buying something from China, but since a lot of the stuff I own was made in China, including this computer I'm using, clearly "made in China" isn't a deal-breaker for me either.

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And now, since I made the comparison to genuine Italian switchblades-

I recently acquired a brand new Frank Beltrame 11" 2.0 stiletto with the 4mm blade and spring. But this was not my intent.

A friend of mine ordered it, from a well-known source, and against my advice. He was under the impression that the new 2.0's would be of higher quality than the previous generation of FB stilettos. Unfortunately he was wrong, at least with the one he received.

The knife he received, pictured below, has a blade canted back in the handle 1/8th of an inch when open. For both my friend and I, this is quite unacceptable. A big part of the allure of a folding stiletto is the sleek, straightness of it, and when the blade is canted, that ruins it, at least to my friend and I. Canted forward would be undesirable, though possibly acceptable, but canted back is just bad, and wrong.

Second, the blade is canted 1/8th of an inch to the side when open. This isn't as bad as canted backwards, but it's still an issue.

Third, sloppy side-to-side blade play. So much so that if you lightly shake the knife side-to-side you can easily feel the blade bouncing between the liners.

Fourth, the knife has so much lock play that if you lightly shake the open knife in your hand forward and back you can feel the blade bouncing up and down against the lock.

Based on my examination of the knife, I get the distinct impression that the pivot pin is too small for the blade pivot hole. This is an issue I've experienced before with Frank Beltrame knives.

Some might say I'm nit-picking, but when I can feel the blade bouncing around when I lightly shake the knife, for me to say that the condition of this knife is "unacceptable" would be an understatement.

Now, just so my comments are not all critical, the knife fired hard, the new 4mm spring is great, and the action of the button was as smooth as could be. The swivel bolster and safety worked as well as one could ask. If not for the issues I described, this could have been a nice knife. It definitely feels heftier than the previous generation of FB 11" stilettos thanks to the thicker blade and spring.

So my friend was disgusted with the knife, and more so with himself for buying it. It cost him $147.

I'm the type of guy who will do whatever it takes to get a refund if I think I'm due, but my friend is different, he doesn't like the hassle, the drawn out exchange of emails or phone calls, and trying to wrestle a refund from a vendor who doesn't want to give it. So instead, he was so disgusted that he offered to give me the knife, thinking I might have a use for some of the parts. But I couldn't take it for free, so I gave him $75.

And now I own my 4th Frank Beltrame switchblade. I had sent back #3, an 11" previous-generation stiletto. It hade a backwards canted blade, a blade that was curved/warped to one side, sloppy side-to-side blade play, and a safety that could only be moved with the use of a tool. I got a refund for that one.

4 knives with what I regard as serious, unacceptable flaws. And that's not counting a few more belonging to others that I have worked on that had similar issues. If other people are having better luck and getting good FB knives, I'm truly happy for you. But that hasn't been my experience.

On a related note, regarding "true Italian craftsmanship", the Italians are just people, like any other people in any other country. The stuff they make doesn't increase in value just because they made it, and shoddy merchandise is still shoddy regardless of who makes it.

And for the record, so no one thinks I'm bashing Italians when I criticize Italian knives, my mother was full-blood Italian, her family is from Calabria, Italy, maiden name Di Tomasi. So that makes me half a full-blooded Italian.

Hey, since I'm Italian on my mothers side, does that mean the knives I build are "genuine Italian"?

Makes me wonder :) .


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Tom19176
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Re: More love for cheap switchblades

Post by Tom19176 »

My issue was the use of the AKC name. I agree this is a Russian design. Nothing against China made knives but totally against illegal use of a company or person's name to miss represent their product. That is my line in the sand.

I have handled over 20 of the new 11" Frank Bs and they were all rock tight lock up when opened. Perry Knife Works had them at the Mystic show and they were all tight. Not sure I see the issue about the blade in your pictures? Maybe I am missing what you are saying?
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Killgar
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Re: More love for cheap switchblades

Post by Killgar »

Tom19176 wrote: Sun Jun 26, 2022 7:04 pm My issue was the use of the AKC name. I agree this is a Russian design. Nothing against China made knives but totally against illegal use of a company or person's name to miss represent their product. That is my line in the sand.

I have handled over 20 of the new 11" Frank Bs and they were all rock tight lock up when opened. Perry Knife Works had them at the Mystic show and they were all tight. Not sure I see the issue about the blade in your pictures? Maybe I am missing what you are saying?
A 1/8th" offset from center doesn't show up dramatically in a picture, but my friend noticed the blade was angled backwards in the open and locked position right off, and he was hoping to love the knife.

I also saw it right off, but an off-centered blade is a real issue with me, so I tend to notice it, especially rearward-angled off-center. 1/8th" may not seem like much to others, but it bugs me.

But that wouldn't have been enough for me to condemn this knife, just enough for me to not like it. The sloppy blade play went over the top. Of course the sloppy blade play won't show in a picture.

It's too bad my friend didn't buy from Perry Knife Works. He might be a much happier man.


This is the best photographic evidence I can provide.

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sammy the blade
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Re: More love for cheap switchblades

Post by sammy the blade »

Sure is hookin to the left a bit. Be hookin to the right when you roll it over.
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Tom19176
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Re: More love for cheap switchblades

Post by Tom19176 »

Ok I see it better in this picture. Not sure it would bug me, but I understand if it does bug you. I never paid too much attention to solid lock ups on switchblades, but one of my buddies made me grow to check on that. All the one Perry's had were solid. I was impressed by them as I had felt Frank Bs were lacking in quality the last few years. Sorry you got a bad one.
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NorthCarolinaDude
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Re: More love for cheap switchblades

Post by NorthCarolinaDude »

The couple FB 2.0 knives that I have are pretty well fitted, at least compared to their previous generation. But in a whole, from an aesthetic point of view, I go back to what I said about musical instruments...I own 5 or 6 Fender Strats, a mix of US and Mexico builds, but only consider one of them a real "player." Sure, you can play the others well enough but the frets may be a bit high or sticky on some while others may have a slightly off-plane fret-board or one that could use a little abrasive to bring it into being a bit smoother. I've always looked at these knives from Maniago with a similar ideal, and it's always exciting when you get one that was put together properly. I think that has a bit to do with the actual manufacturing process, and quite possibly why the mass-produced Chinese knives can be put together better. Less human involvement, tighter tolerances. Alas, even our friends in Italy have been marching toward a day when they'll load the stock, press a button, and at the other end a completed knife will be dropped into a box, or in this case, a plastic bag. :)

And that march, while it's been slow, has been determined. And, of course, as more are being made at a given time, quality also suffers. As does inflation in materials and the need for better profits with each unit produced. I admire that about some of the Chinese knives where materials may not always be superior but they seem to make sure the end product is nevertheless consistent and affordable.

Peace.
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Re: More love for cheap switchblades

Post by JackDRipper »

I like the looks of that a lot. Someone should do a reverse China deal. Steal the design and reproduce it using better materials and construction methods. Id be in for one.. Maybe two.

Edit:
Just checked the China sites and found them. I like the looks of the ones without a bottom bolster even better. Wonder what the second screw in the top bolster is for.
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Killgar
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Re: More love for cheap switchblades

Post by Killgar »

JackDRipper wrote: Thu Jul 14, 2022 12:04 am I like the looks of that a lot. Someone should do a reverse China deal. Steal the design and reproduce it using better materials and construction methods. Id be in for one.. Maybe two.

Edit:
Just checked the China sites and found them. I like the looks of the ones without a bottom bolster even better. Wonder what the second screw in the top bolster is for.
Image
The second screw in the top bolsters is to secure the bolsters to the knife. If the pivot screw were tight then the knife wouldn't fire very well, if at all. So a second screw is necessary to keep the bolsters on.
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LD57
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Re: More love for cheap switchblades

Post by LD57 »

It looks like these are now available in 9 inch, some with metal bolsters all around.
Still have the AKC stamp :roll:
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Tom19176
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Re: More love for cheap switchblades

Post by Tom19176 »

IF they were marked AKC I would consider buying one....
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