Newbie Question - Italian Stilettos

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Cop_Out
Posts: 8
Joined: Sun Jun 05, 2022 5:27 pm

Newbie Question - Italian Stilettos

Post by Cop_Out »

Hi folks,
I'm a TOTAL newb to Italian switchblades and have been reading the information here over the last few weeks. My first purchase was a couple of Frank B knives from 3K and my impressions were similar to what I've had read on this forum (Thanks!). I also have a Walt's Latama inbound from PVK, and I'm looking forward to comparing the two brands "side by side".

So, my question is: Would there be a significant upgrade in quality & performance with a custom-made knife, or is there a threshold where the knives aren't really improved, they're just cosmetically different?

Thanks,
C
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button_man
Posts: 632
Joined: Mon Feb 11, 2019 2:08 pm

Re: Newbie Question - Italian Stilettos

Post by button_man »

.

If you have not yet done so, I advise you to read this thread: viewtopic.php?f=1&t=30297&p=313650&hili ... ty#p313650

One of the shoddiest aspects of Italian knives is what I call "layer spaces" or "layer gaps" -- open the knife and hold it so you are looking at the backspring, with a window or strong lamp behind the knife.... tip it back and forth and you will see spaces between the layers of backspring / liners / scales that you could throw a cat through. And this holds true for Italian knives from the 1950s all the way up to present day; and in all price ranges as well.
They just could not be bothered to achieve a tight fit. I have cheapo little American "card knives" from the 1950s that are just as tight as a drum.

When I want to carry a stiletto-type knife, I don't carry an Italian spring-knife..... the fit is too sloppy, they are too expensive, and there is always a chance, however remote, that the deployment mechanism might suddenly fail. I carry a Cold Steel brand "Ty-lite" -- unfortunately, the 4" seems
a little too short, and the 6" is a little too long.... if they made a 5" blade it would be perfect; but they don't. Usually I go with the 4" blade.
(caution: these knives have been massively faked -- there are tons of them on eBay now, and virtually all of them are counterfeits from China.)

If I really want to carry a spring-knife, I usually go with my little (USA made) Piranha "Virus" -- well made, affordable, and takes a wicked edge.
I encourage you to look beyond the Italian stuff and keep your mind open to other options. Welcome to the forum!
.
Cop_Out
Posts: 8
Joined: Sun Jun 05, 2022 5:27 pm

Re: Newbie Question - Italian Stilettos

Post by Cop_Out »

button_man wrote: Tue Jun 07, 2022 2:05 pm .

If you have not yet done so, I advise you to read this thread: viewtopic.php?f=1&t=30297&p=313650&hili ... ty#p313650

One of the shoddiest aspects of Italian knives is what I call "layer spaces" or "layer gaps" -- open the knife and hold it so you are looking at the backspring, with a window or strong lamp behind the knife.... tip it back and forth and you will see spaces between the layers of backspring / liners / scales that you could throw a cat through. And this holds true for Italian knives from the 1950s all the way up to present day; and in all price ranges as well.
They just could not be bothered to achieve a tight fit. I have cheapo little American "card knives" from the 1950s that are just as tight as a drum.

When I want to carry a stiletto-type knife, I don't carry an Italian spring-knife..... the fit is too sloppy, they are too expensive, and there is always a chance, however remote, that the deployment mechanism might suddenly fail. I carry a Cold Steel brand "Ty-lite" -- unfortunately, the 4" seems
a little too short, and the 6" is a little too long.... if they made a 5" blade it would be perfect; but they don't. Usually I go with the 4" blade.
(caution: these knives have been massively faked -- there are tons of them on eBay now, and virtually all of them are counterfeits from China.)

If I really want to carry a spring-knife, I usually go with my little (USA made) Piranha "Virus" -- well made, affordable, and takes a wicked edge.
I encourage you to look beyond the Italian stuff and keep your mind open to other options. Welcome to the forum!
.
Thank you very much @button_man for this informative reply!
Best,
C
sammy the blade
Posts: 4023
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Location: Indiana

Re: Newbie Question - Italian Stilettos

Post by sammy the blade »

If one of the manglers start with a flawed stiletto they will in "most" cases correct the flaws that came from the maker. All depends on what you want and how much you want to spend.
2024 candidate for president
Cop_Out
Posts: 8
Joined: Sun Jun 05, 2022 5:27 pm

Re: Newbie Question - Italian Stilettos

Post by Cop_Out »

sammy the blade wrote: Tue Jun 07, 2022 5:47 pm If one of the manglers start with a flawed stiletto they will in "most" cases correct the flaws that came from the maker. All depends on what you want and how much you want to spend.
Thank you, sir!
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Killgar
Posts: 298
Joined: Fri Nov 19, 2021 6:52 am

Re: Newbie Question - Italian Stilettos

Post by Killgar »

Good luck finding someone to make you a custom Italian-style stiletto. It seems the number of guys who make such knives is dwindling. And if you could find one, it would be a rather expensive project. Paul Panak (BURN Knives) comes to mind. But I don't know if he still makes stilettos, and on the secondary market his Italian-style stilettos go for well over a grand (if you can find one).

Latama switchblades are made by Frank Beltrame, but they are made to a higher degree of quality than the Beltrame brand of knives. At least they are supposed to be of higher quality.

Some personal thoughts on Italian, and Italian-style stilettos-

Although the Italian-style stiletto has always been my favorite type of knife, I was never happy with the selection I found (not counting customs).

Here's what I don't like about them-

I do not like brass liners, brass is soft, and over time the sear hole in the liner can wear, and become deformed, possibly leading to blade-peek. And over time the pivot hole can also become deformed from firing the knife (blade slamming the pivot pin forward against the liners when it hits the lock), and that can lead to blade-play.

I absolutely hate hollow/stamped bolsters. They just seem very cheap and chintzy. Like exactly the sort of thing one would expect on a very cheap, souvenir/novelty-type knife.

And I also dislike what I call "floating bolsters". By "floating" I mean bolsters that are attached to the knife by a single pin. That's not my idea of sturdy construction. In particular, I like top bolsters that are truly secured to the liners so they actually "bolster" the pivot pin, so instead of the pin just getting slammed against the liners, it also gets slammed against the bolsters.

And the overall construction often just feels weak, like you could break one in your hands.

In general, I'm sad to say that I regard several of the "production" Italian stilettos as nothing more than novelty/toy-like knives. Not serious, robust knives that are actually designed as weapons (and when you get down to it, that's what a stiletto is- a weapon).

So in the end, I built my own, to my own standards and according to my own tastes.

I built the two 11" stiletto switchblades below. I used some aftermarket parts, and I made several parts from scratch.

Image

Both of those knives feature stainless steel liners, and SOLID stainless steel bolsters. With the top knife the bolsters are WELDED to the liners (not soldered), with the bottom knife the bolsters are bolted to the liners (for that knife I made the liners and bolsters from scratch). The handles are canvas micarta (made myself), and I designed and made the lock-release mechanisms.

They also feature all-screw construction (no pins), adjustable screw pivots (no blade-play), and bronze-phosphorus pivot washers.

Image


I really wish that some knife company would produce a high-quality, modernized version of the Italian stiletto switchblade. One that is robust, and features all of the characteristics like the ones I built. That way when I talk about my favorite type of knife to people I could actually recommend a knife to them, rather than having to warn them away from what's available on the production market.
Avatar- Ti-Lite Auto Conversion. Video- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q79nia-_DzU

My youtube knife channel- https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCjSYCK ... 3s5HNcsL5A
sammy the blade
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Re: Newbie Question - Italian Stilettos

Post by sammy the blade »

Nice work!!!
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Killgar
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Re: Newbie Question - Italian Stilettos

Post by Killgar »

sammy the blade wrote: Wed Jun 08, 2022 12:46 am Nice work!!!
Thanks Sammy. :D

For the record, I don't build those types of switchblades anymore. Aside from the fact that my source for aftermarket parts dried up, these days I'm focused exclusively on my Ti-Lite 6 conversions.
Avatar- Ti-Lite Auto Conversion. Video- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q79nia-_DzU

My youtube knife channel- https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCjSYCK ... 3s5HNcsL5A
button_man
Posts: 632
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Re: Newbie Question - Italian Stilettos

Post by button_man »

.

TI-LITE CONVERSIONS....!!!!! *perk*

Are you currently just working on your own stuff?
Or are you accepting clients? If the latter: SIGN ME UP !!!

.
User avatar
Killgar
Posts: 298
Joined: Fri Nov 19, 2021 6:52 am

Re: Newbie Question - Italian Stilettos

Post by Killgar »

button_man wrote: Wed Jun 08, 2022 4:14 am .

TI-LITE CONVERSIONS....!!!!! *perk*

Are you currently just working on your own stuff?
Or are you accepting clients? If the latter: SIGN ME UP !!!

.
Sorry Button_Man, I never take commission work, I prefer to avoid obligations and deadlines.

I've done 3 Ti-Lite 6 conversions so far, and I've got everything I need for the fourth, but I haven't started on it yet. I move at a slow pace. The first two I made are for me, I made the third to sell, and will eventually sell it, and any others I build. But I'm not in any hurry to sell, nor am I accepting offers. Like I said, I move at a slow pace.

Unfortunately I only have the necessary parts to make a few more. Like I said earlier, my supplier for certain parts dried up. I've been looking for alterative sources, but no luck so far.

Here's a link to the thread I created here at Talkblade about my Ti-Lite 6 conversions (with links to my Youtube videos featuring them)- viewtopic.php?f=5&t=30112

Here's a pic of the first three. In this pic the top knife (my first conversion) has had the front handle replaced to match the others. It has a different front handle than in the link I provided, and the first Youtube video.

They fire hard. The first two have now been fired over 300 times since I finished them in Oct-Nov of 2021 (I've been keeping count). And they still fire just as hard now as they did on day one. The third one has only been fired about 20 times (during construction, testing, dialing it in, and making the video). I don't "play" with that one, because like I said, I plan to sell it someday, and I think the future owner will appreciate that it's still "fresh".

Image
Avatar- Ti-Lite Auto Conversion. Video- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q79nia-_DzU

My youtube knife channel- https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCjSYCK ... 3s5HNcsL5A
Cop_Out
Posts: 8
Joined: Sun Jun 05, 2022 5:27 pm

Re: Newbie Question - Italian Stilettos

Post by Cop_Out »

Killgar wrote: Tue Jun 07, 2022 11:51 pm Good luck finding someone to make you a custom Italian-style stiletto. It seems the number of guys who make such knives is dwindling. And if you could find one, it would be a rather expensive project. Paul Panak (BURN Knives) comes to mind. But I don't know if he still makes stilettos, and on the secondary market his Italian-style stilettos go for well over a grand (if you can find one).

Latama switchblades are made by Frank Beltrame, but they are made to a higher degree of quality than the Beltrame brand of knives. At least they are supposed to be of higher quality.

Some personal thoughts on Italian, and Italian-style stilettos-

Although the Italian-style stiletto has always been my favorite type of knife, I was never happy with the selection I found (not counting customs).

Here's what I don't like about them-

I do not like brass liners, brass is soft, and over time the sear hole in the liner can wear, and become deformed, possibly leading to blade-peek. And over time the pivot hole can also become deformed from firing the knife (blade slamming the pivot pin forward against the liners when it hits the lock), and that can lead to blade-play.

I absolutely hate hollow/stamped bolsters. They just seem very cheap and chintzy. Like exactly the sort of thing one would expect on a very cheap, souvenir/novelty-type knife.

And I also dislike what I call "floating bolsters". By "floating" I mean bolsters that are attached to the knife by a single pin. That's not my idea of sturdy construction. In particular, I like top bolsters that are truly secured to the liners so they actually "bolster" the pivot pin, so instead of the pin just getting slammed against the liners, it also gets slammed against the bolsters.

And the overall construction often just feels weak, like you could break one in your hands.

In general, I'm sad to say that I regard several of the "production" Italian stilettos as nothing more than novelty/toy-like knives. Not serious, robust knives that are actually designed as weapons (and when you get down to it, that's what a stiletto is- a weapon).

So in the end, I built my own, to my own standards and according to my own tastes.

I built the two 11" stiletto switchblades below. I used some aftermarket parts, and I made several parts from scratch.

Image

Both of those knives feature stainless steel liners, and SOLID stainless steel bolsters. With the top knife the bolsters are WELDED to the liners (not soldered), with the bottom knife the bolsters are bolted to the liners (for that knife I made the liners and bolsters from scratch). The handles are canvas micarta (made myself), and I designed and made the lock-release mechanisms.

They also feature all-screw construction (no pins), adjustable screw pivots (no blade-play), and bronze-phosphorus pivot washers.

Image


I really wish that some knife company would produce a high-quality, modernized version of the Italian stiletto switchblade. One that is robust, and features all of the characteristics like the ones I built. That way when I talk about my favorite type of knife to people I could actually recommend a knife to them, rather than having to warn them away from what's available on the production market.
Thanks for the information, sir. Also, it looks like you make a heck of a knife!!
Cop_Out
Posts: 8
Joined: Sun Jun 05, 2022 5:27 pm

Re: Newbie Question - Italian Stilettos

Post by Cop_Out »

Killgar wrote: Wed Jun 08, 2022 5:29 am
button_man wrote: Wed Jun 08, 2022 4:14 am .

TI-LITE CONVERSIONS....!!!!! *perk*

Are you currently just working on your own stuff?
Or are you accepting clients? If the latter: SIGN ME UP !!!

.
Sorry Button_Man, I never take commission work, I prefer to avoid obligations and deadlines.

I've done 3 Ti-Lite 6 conversions so far, and I've got everything I need for the fourth, but I haven't started on it yet. I move at a slow pace. The first two I made are for me, I made the third to sell, and will eventually sell it, and any others I build. But I'm not in any hurry to sell, nor am I accepting offers. Like I said, I move at a slow pace.

Unfortunately I only have the necessary parts to make a few more. Like I said earlier, my supplier for certain parts dried up. I've been looking for alterative sources, but no luck so far.

Here's a link to the thread I created here at Talkblade about my Ti-Lite 6 conversions (with links to my Youtube videos featuring them)- viewtopic.php?f=5&t=30112

Here's a pic of the first three. In this pic the top knife (my first conversion) has had the front handle replaced to match the others. It has a different front handle than in the link I provided, and the first Youtube video.

They fire hard. The first two have now been fired over 300 times since I finished them in Oct-Nov of 2021 (I've been keeping count). And they still fire just as hard now as they did on day one. The third one has only been fired about 20 times (during construction, testing, dialing it in, and making the video). I don't "play" with that one, because like I said, I plan to sell it someday, and I think the future owner will appreciate that it's still "fresh".

Image
Those are beautiful! I respect that you're not interested in selling your knives, but if you ever decide to put me on the list!
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Killgar
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Re: Newbie Question - Italian Stilettos

Post by Killgar »

Thank you Cop_Out :)
Avatar- Ti-Lite Auto Conversion. Video- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q79nia-_DzU

My youtube knife channel- https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCjSYCK ... 3s5HNcsL5A
User avatar
NorthCarolinaDude
Posts: 213
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Location: The South

Re: Newbie Question - Italian Stilettos

Post by NorthCarolinaDude »

Yes, excellent work indeed, Killgar. I'm not a Ti-Lite guy, I think I have a knockoff here somewhere, but the 3 you have built would certainly change my interests if I could find such a conversion. Honestly, there hasn't been a knife you've done yet that I wouldn't immediately snap up if available!

And it would be nice if we could see more "thicc" built specimens such as your work represented in the stiletto class!

Peace.
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Killgar
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Re: Newbie Question - Italian Stilettos

Post by Killgar »

NorthCarolinaDude wrote: Sun Jun 19, 2022 4:24 am Yes, excellent work indeed, Killgar. I'm not a Ti-Lite guy, I think I have a knockoff here somewhere, but the 3 you have built would certainly change my interests if I could find such a conversion. Honestly, there hasn't been a knife you've done yet that I wouldn't immediately snap up if available!

And it would be nice if we could see more "thicc" built specimens such as your work represented in the stiletto class!

Peace.
Thanks a lot NorthCarolinaDude :) .

I actually plan on selling most of what remains of my "collection", including the top knife pictured below (11" stiletto). That one's the better of the two, with most of the parts made by hand. I'm looking to downsize my "collection". I don't need the money, but I like the idea of my knives being owned and appreciated by others, and I don't have anyone I'd want to leave them to. I plan on keeping the bottom knife, I want to keep at least one 11" stiletto for sentimental reasons.

Prior to building my first Ti-Lite conversion, the idea of parting with any of the switchblades I've built would have been unthinkable. But the success with the conversions changed me and my attitude towards my knives. For me, my Ti-Lite conversion is THE ULTIMATE switchblade, and possessing THE ULTIMATE is what matters to me the most, I'm no longer interested in quantity or variety. I already sold my two boot knife switchblade conversions, and I've felt no regrets about it, so I know it won't bother me to sell the rest. And one of those had been one of my most prized possessions for several years.

I've never sold anything online or any other way other than face-to-face (which is what I prefer). Selling online is something I'm a bit reluctant to do. I'm still debating between using Arizona Customs, or posting them for sale here, or doing auctions on Sharper Deals. And I still have to decide on prices. If I sell them myself I won't use PayPal or similar services, I'm thinking USPS money orders.

I'm also thinking that when I'm ready to sell that I will try and sell everything at once, so I'm waiting until I'm ready to sell everything (except the few I'm keeping).


Image
Avatar- Ti-Lite Auto Conversion. Video- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q79nia-_DzU

My youtube knife channel- https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCjSYCK ... 3s5HNcsL5A
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