I am a recovering "steel snob".
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I am a recovering "steel snob".
I think that we all tend to get this way. An attitude of, "It isn't of much use unless the folding/fixed blade is at least (enter expensive steel name here)".
Let's face it, we all love ATS-34, CPM-154, D2, 440C, AUS-10, AUS-8 9Cr13 even 8Cr13 steel. These are all very good and some are more affordable than others. Some of us are on a fixed income and can't afford a nice knife that sports a "premium" steel.
I have been experimenting with lesser steels. Heck, I bought a Schrade Barlow Jackmaster as a "quick fix" for someone that was in desperate need of a pocket knife. The Chinese 3Cr13 Steel doesn't hold an edge very long. (It is similar to a crude 420J2 American steel). For a short time, or for a boy's first knife, it serves the purpose. Let's be realistic, it doesn't "measure up to the more expensive alloys, but it is a good "introduction" knife for beginners. If they are broken or lost, the pain of such isn't too heartfelt or severe.
This brings us up to to the 440A and the 7Cr17Mov steels from the People's Republic Of China.
(1) 440A seems to be enjoying popularity for those that are buying Rough Rider Knives (both folding and fixed). These cost between $6.00 and $13.00 for most knives in this relatively inexpensive alloy. It has been tempered and hardened to higher levels by companies that put the effort into it. It can be either good or borderline depending upon who is sourcing the material. It is mostly for light-duty, sit-in-the drawer/pocket knives that see occasional use.
(2) 7Cr17MoV: I like this steel for more frequent use. Since it contains more Chromium (corrosion resistance being the objective) and Molybdenum (added toughness) when this steel is routinely hardened to 54-56Rc an edge may not last as long, but a "touch up" on the blade is quick and it brings it to a nice "hair-popping" sharp edge. On full-tang, fixed-blade knives, it is an inexpensive alternative to the more expensive alloys. These usually hold a good edge through the dressing of a single deer or a number of small game species. Resharpening isn't a mammoth task, but a relatively quick undertaking. When it comes to pocket knives, 7Cr17Mov outshines 440A in edge-holding performance. As far as I know a brushed-steel finish is all that is available. It is an inexpensive "compromise" when it comes to buying a "user" pocket knife on a tight budget.
If I have irritated people, that wasn't the intent. If I have shed some light on some of the knife world's "less prominent" but still useful steel being used in the "knife world" today.
Let's face it, we all love ATS-34, CPM-154, D2, 440C, AUS-10, AUS-8 9Cr13 even 8Cr13 steel. These are all very good and some are more affordable than others. Some of us are on a fixed income and can't afford a nice knife that sports a "premium" steel.
I have been experimenting with lesser steels. Heck, I bought a Schrade Barlow Jackmaster as a "quick fix" for someone that was in desperate need of a pocket knife. The Chinese 3Cr13 Steel doesn't hold an edge very long. (It is similar to a crude 420J2 American steel). For a short time, or for a boy's first knife, it serves the purpose. Let's be realistic, it doesn't "measure up to the more expensive alloys, but it is a good "introduction" knife for beginners. If they are broken or lost, the pain of such isn't too heartfelt or severe.
This brings us up to to the 440A and the 7Cr17Mov steels from the People's Republic Of China.
(1) 440A seems to be enjoying popularity for those that are buying Rough Rider Knives (both folding and fixed). These cost between $6.00 and $13.00 for most knives in this relatively inexpensive alloy. It has been tempered and hardened to higher levels by companies that put the effort into it. It can be either good or borderline depending upon who is sourcing the material. It is mostly for light-duty, sit-in-the drawer/pocket knives that see occasional use.
(2) 7Cr17MoV: I like this steel for more frequent use. Since it contains more Chromium (corrosion resistance being the objective) and Molybdenum (added toughness) when this steel is routinely hardened to 54-56Rc an edge may not last as long, but a "touch up" on the blade is quick and it brings it to a nice "hair-popping" sharp edge. On full-tang, fixed-blade knives, it is an inexpensive alternative to the more expensive alloys. These usually hold a good edge through the dressing of a single deer or a number of small game species. Resharpening isn't a mammoth task, but a relatively quick undertaking. When it comes to pocket knives, 7Cr17Mov outshines 440A in edge-holding performance. As far as I know a brushed-steel finish is all that is available. It is an inexpensive "compromise" when it comes to buying a "user" pocket knife on a tight budget.
If I have irritated people, that wasn't the intent. If I have shed some light on some of the knife world's "less prominent" but still useful steel being used in the "knife world" today.
Fishtail Picklock
- ILikeStilettos
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Re: I am a recovering "steel snob".
Duke and I are using 1095 because it's a high carbon, simple steel, therefore easier to heat treat. We have 440C as well, but that's much more complex. Often, other factors such as blade geometry and intended use are more significant to the process than a particular material.
Dave Sause
oldandfat@cox.net
(405) 694-3690
"And you're telling me this because, somehow, I look like I give a shit?"
"Let a smile be your umbrella and you're gonna get your dumb ass wet."
oldandfat@cox.net
(405) 694-3690
"And you're telling me this because, somehow, I look like I give a shit?"
"Let a smile be your umbrella and you're gonna get your dumb ass wet."
Re: I am a recovering "steel snob".
steel depends on use, if it's a closet queen does it matter if it's d2 or cheap 420 ???
my users all have o1 or d2 and they hold up after a beating.
my users all have o1 or d2 and they hold up after a beating.
TRYKER
A man who brags about how smart he is, wouldn't if he was.
"Rose-colored glassses are never made in bifocals. Nobody wants to read the small print in dreams"
A man who brags about how smart he is, wouldn't if he was.
"Rose-colored glassses are never made in bifocals. Nobody wants to read the small print in dreams"
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Re: I am a recovering "steel snob".
I'll grant you that blade geometry has a great deal to do with how well a knife performs and it's intended purpose. The higher end steels are great, but I have gained and entirely new appreciation for the "lesser' steels from China. I have seen them perform admirably. Schrade/Taylor and other Chinese manufacturers aren't doing too badly within a given budget. YouTube has videos of these knives doing their jobs without losing much of their edge. A few passes on properly angled ceramic rods brings them right back to where they originally were. You can't ask much more than that.ILikeStilettos wrote:Duke and I are using 1095 because it's a high carbon, simple steel, therefore easier to heat treat. We have 440C as well, but that's much more complex. Often, other factors such as blade geometry and intended use are more significant to the process than a particular material.
Don't get me wrong, it is hard to beat a good 1095 Carbon Steel or well-made 440C blade. They'll work like the proverbial "soul inspired" but for a "bargain blade', some of the Chinese knives perform rather well. Because of this, I have gained an entirely new appreciation for them.
I am just giving credit where credit is due.
Fishtail Picklock
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Re: I am a recovering "steel snob".
Do you "beat" your knives, or do you just use them? Use is one thing, abusing them is quite another. You can put well-made 7Cr17Mov to lots of good, honest use without tearing them up. They may have a shorter "service life" and 1095 Carbon Steel, 440C and D2 will last longer, but not everyone has the money to buy them.TRYKER wrote:steel depends on use, if it's a closet queen does it matter if it's d2 or cheap 420 ???
my users all have o1 or d2 and they hold up after a beating.
Most folks would love to own and drive a Bentley, but not everyone has the wherewithal to afford one.
Fishtail Picklock
- ILikeStilettos
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Re: I am a recovering "steel snob".
Not disputing anything said here, but material cost is rarely a factor in custom knives. If you want mammoth scales, sure. Most of the cost of cheap steel, or good steel, or even Damascus steel is a fraction of the labor and expendables cost. There are many variations in prices and shipping for even standard steels. Putting it another way, we wouldn't be able to lower prices by using a lower quality steel and our material costs radically increase if we don't proactively shop for good deals.
Dave Sause
oldandfat@cox.net
(405) 694-3690
"And you're telling me this because, somehow, I look like I give a shit?"
"Let a smile be your umbrella and you're gonna get your dumb ass wet."
oldandfat@cox.net
(405) 694-3690
"And you're telling me this because, somehow, I look like I give a shit?"
"Let a smile be your umbrella and you're gonna get your dumb ass wet."
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- Posts: 2222
- Joined: Sat May 03, 2003 11:10 pm
- Location: Forest Grove, OR
Re: I am a recovering "steel snob".
Dave,
I like 1095 Carbon and 440C Steel as well. Were Taylor/Schrade to return to 440C, they would gain a greater following. (1095 wouldn't be a bad Idea either). If I had more money, I would like to speak to you about some "special" fixed-blade knives.
I like 1095 Carbon and 440C Steel as well. Were Taylor/Schrade to return to 440C, they would gain a greater following. (1095 wouldn't be a bad Idea either). If I had more money, I would like to speak to you about some "special" fixed-blade knives.
Fishtail Picklock
- ILikeStilettos
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Re: I am a recovering "steel snob".
Are you on FB? I have posted some fixed there. Naturally, fixed are less expensive than switchblades because they are easier. You have my contact information, reach out at any time. You might be surprised just how affordable I (or rather Duke) can be.Fishtail Picklock wrote:Dave,
I like 1095 Carbon and 440C Steel as well. Were Taylor/Schrade to return to 440C, they would gain a greater following. (1095 wouldn't be a bad Idea either). If I had more money, I would like to speak to you about some "special" fixed-blade knives.
http://www.talkblade.info/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=24417
Dave Sause
oldandfat@cox.net
(405) 694-3690
"And you're telling me this because, somehow, I look like I give a shit?"
"Let a smile be your umbrella and you're gonna get your dumb ass wet."
oldandfat@cox.net
(405) 694-3690
"And you're telling me this because, somehow, I look like I give a shit?"
"Let a smile be your umbrella and you're gonna get your dumb ass wet."
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- Posts: 2222
- Joined: Sat May 03, 2003 11:10 pm
- Location: Forest Grove, OR
Re: I am a recovering "steel snob".
Sorry, I don't care much for standard "social media" these forums are about as close as I get. Heck, I'm 62 years old and don't' get out into the field much anymore. I'll keep coming back to the Forums and remain "in touch". I have been into discreet "urban carry" as of late. I don't generally wear jeans, and prefer to wear slacks and a sportcoat.
I have gained an entirely new respect for a 3 1/2" - 4" boot knives and skinners. These "little" knives can come in handy when the fecal matter impacts the air motivator. There are times and places these knives can be hidden. I'm not interested in fomenting angst and violence, but I don't feel as if being a victim is a noble gesture. Quiet gentility and respect will generally diffuse violence, but there are those that insist on committing crimes against those that go about their business. These knives have their place and have since their inception.
I have gained an entirely new respect for a 3 1/2" - 4" boot knives and skinners. These "little" knives can come in handy when the fecal matter impacts the air motivator. There are times and places these knives can be hidden. I'm not interested in fomenting angst and violence, but I don't feel as if being a victim is a noble gesture. Quiet gentility and respect will generally diffuse violence, but there are those that insist on committing crimes against those that go about their business. These knives have their place and have since their inception.
Fishtail Picklock
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Re: I am a recovering "steel snob".
I agree but I prefer a pistol as the first line of defense but I always carry a knife. I try to never leave home without both! Although I've not needed either for self defense yet but I believe in being prepared. Learned that in cub scouts!
2024 candidate for president
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Re: I am a recovering "steel snob".
I received the Schrade Sharpfinger and Dog Leg Jack in today's mail. I gifted the Dog Leg Jack to the same person that I gave the Schrade Jackmaster Barlow. It cost me all of $8.98 including shipping (for each knife) so I paid very little for them.
It took all of two minutes to put a "shaving sharp" edge on the Sharpfinger and I think that getting a lot of use from this implement will be fairly easy. I don't get outdoors much these days, as the rain is punishing the area and will likely do so until May. When I get into the city, one of the Old Timers will likely go with me. (A sportcoat covers a multitude of sins as well as other things). Unfortunately, I live within 30 miles of one of the "bastions" (read carbuncles) of Leftism in the Western United States. The insane "homeless" of the city tend to get away with a great number of assaults and asinine behavior because the "forgiving Left" kisses their collective @**es.
It took all of two minutes to put a "shaving sharp" edge on the Sharpfinger and I think that getting a lot of use from this implement will be fairly easy. I don't get outdoors much these days, as the rain is punishing the area and will likely do so until May. When I get into the city, one of the Old Timers will likely go with me. (A sportcoat covers a multitude of sins as well as other things). Unfortunately, I live within 30 miles of one of the "bastions" (read carbuncles) of Leftism in the Western United States. The insane "homeless" of the city tend to get away with a great number of assaults and asinine behavior because the "forgiving Left" kisses their collective @**es.
Fishtail Picklock
Re: I am a recovering "steel snob".
when i said beating i ment hard use, butt i do have some i've beatin on. it's called batoning, splitting wood for the campfire.
TRYKER
A man who brags about how smart he is, wouldn't if he was.
"Rose-colored glassses are never made in bifocals. Nobody wants to read the small print in dreams"
A man who brags about how smart he is, wouldn't if he was.
"Rose-colored glassses are never made in bifocals. Nobody wants to read the small print in dreams"
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- Posts: 2222
- Joined: Sat May 03, 2003 11:10 pm
- Location: Forest Grove, OR
Re: I am a recovering "steel snob".
For this, there are larger knives made from 1095 Carbon Steel. The smaller knives are for different purposes. I could see the Large Uncle Henry UH 181 or Old Timer Bowie knives for batoning or Schrade's larger full tang knives for batoning. The larger knives are better for use as a Bushcraft/Camp Knife.TRYKER wrote:when i said beating i ment hard use, butt i do have some i've beatin on. it's called batoning, splitting wood for the campfire.
The proper tool for the job seems to be the rule, doesn't it?
Fishtail Picklock
Re: I am a recovering "steel snob".
depends on the size of the wood. i've used my enzo trapper with d2 and 31/2'' blade on smaller stuff to a 6'' blade greenriver for batoning , larger stuff yeah i use the becker 7 or 9'' which ever i'm packing on that trip.
the enzo is my main bushcrafter knife.
the enzo is my main bushcrafter knife.
TRYKER
A man who brags about how smart he is, wouldn't if he was.
"Rose-colored glassses are never made in bifocals. Nobody wants to read the small print in dreams"
A man who brags about how smart he is, wouldn't if he was.
"Rose-colored glassses are never made in bifocals. Nobody wants to read the small print in dreams"
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- Joined: Sat May 03, 2003 11:10 pm
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Re: I am a recovering "steel snob".
The Sharpfinger pattern doesn't lend itself to anything heavier then feathering hardwood branches or "fatwood". The little Sharpfinger is excellent for small game and skinning deer as well. After two Whitetail deer have been skinned, it will probably need a quick touch up. You can clean and skin small game all day with this little piece of steel.
It works quite well for it's intended purpose.
It works quite well for it's intended purpose.
Fishtail Picklock