Bone 101

Post by **tr4252** » Mon May 24, 2004 9:46 pm

Bill,

Would you, or anyone else here, be willing to take a few minutes to spell out some facts about procuring, working, and maintaining bone and horn for knife scales?

I've looked at many knifemaking supply websites, and have learned little. I'd like to make a set of bone scales for a knife I'm working on, and am looking for the most stable, ivory-looking type availble. The majority of the supply websites I've looked at don't even mention what sort of (animal) bone they'e selling.

The extent of my experience with bone is that a few times I've seen some of my own, and once a dog bit my face while contesting the ownership of one within the range of his chain.

Sources would be most apprecited, though most of them advertise jigged/picked/etc. while I'm just looking for an homogenous slab of material.

Your insights on working with horn would also be appreciated; I have equal lack of knowledge there, but would like to try working with it.

TR

missaman · Post by **missaman** » Tue May 25, 2004 10:44 am

http://www.talkblade.info/viewtopic.php?t=2377

Good luck

Post by **Bill DeShivs** » Tue May 25, 2004 6:31 pm

Most of the bone you see is cattle shin bone. I'm not sure which suppliers have it in white. It can be dyed with leather dye, and jigged with a Dremel.
If you want ivory look, bone won't do it. It's too porous. Try Masecraft Supply co. imitation ivory. Closest thing I have seen.
Horn: most that you see for sale is water buffalo. Horn can be straightened with heat-225- 245 degrees, no more.
Cow horn is what was used on picklocks. You would have to cut your own.
Try this website: http://www.diboncentazzo.com/en/site.htm
Bill

Pushbutton · Post by **Pushbutton** » Tue May 25, 2004 7:47 pm

Bill
I have a custom Stanley Fujisaka folder engraved by Bruce Shaw. The whole frame is andonized and he scaled it in burnished bone which unless you knew it's pretty hard to tell from older Ivory scales.
PB

Post by **Bill DeShivs** » Tue May 25, 2004 8:15 pm

Pushbutton
For once you and I agree on something! Bone, properly prepared can look like ivory.
But most bone, when polished, is too porous and picks up buffing compound in the pores. Learning to avoid this is an art form in itself.
Masecraft ivory cuts, polishes, and even smells like real ivory.
If you look at my Blade Show knife on TSF you can see some.
Bill

Post by **tr4252** » Tue May 25, 2004 9:24 pm

Bill,

I've always had the impression that bone was porous, but the work of Nemo and many others looks pretty smooth. Do they fill the pores with something, or is it the type of bone they use? How would it be finished, if that's the correct word? Is it ever "stabilized" like wood can be? I've worked with stabilized wood, and it machines like fiberglass.

Cow shins. That figures. I should try the imitation ivory, but would like very much to stick with natural materials whenever possible. I'll order some, along with some cow bone, and some horn. Then experiment a bit. Any more thoughts on this subject by you and other members would be greatly appreciated.

TR

Pushbutton · Post by **Pushbutton** » Tue May 25, 2004 9:29 pm

Bill DeShivs wrote:Pushbutton
For once you and I agree on something! Bone, properly prepared can look like ivory.
Bill

Why Bill that is a confusing statement what have you and I ever disagreed upon? Thats why I always have liked you cause you think and know just about the exact things I do. Maybe your getting me mixed up with another member.

PB

Diggaway · Post by **Diggaway** » Wed May 26, 2004 5:35 pm

Although I have taken the messy route in the past(shins right off the killing floor) the quicker,cleaner route is to visit the local pet supply house and select a bleached dog bone.The friendly butcher's sliding table band saw cuts neat,uniform slabs with little fuss,or you can do the same with some careful hacksaw work. Rough sand on a belt,either outside or anywhere but home(unless She Who Must Be Obeyed has a cold)
My finish work is done by hand,down to 600 grit followed by 4/0 steel wool,then cloth and Flitz polish.I don't often do smooth bone,when I do it is always dyed so I can't really comment on white,but I would suspect that it would pick up some discolouration from handling.My first choice of sealer/finish would be super glue in thin multiple treatments,followed by light sanding and polishing.
Regards,Diggaway

Post by **tr4252** » Thu May 27, 2004 12:25 am

Superglue. I buy it by the case where I work. Said to a bean counter once "it's the cheapest time money can buy"; end of discussion. It hadn't occured to me to use it as a filler, but it seems like that would work.

Now that you mention it, the guitar repair guys use it to fix dings on old guitars. I'll try this. Any idea how well it stands up over time? Does it turn yellow like some urethanes?

Hadn't thought of pet shop bones either. In your experience, do animal bones need to be dried out like wood, and would they shrink, etc. over time?

Thanks.

TR

Post by **tr4252** » Thu May 27, 2004 12:30 am

Diggaway,

Hope you'll excuse the lapses. Another postscipt, yet.

She who must be obeyed. You a Gene Sheppard fan?

TR

Diggaway · Post by **Diggaway** » Thu May 27, 2004 2:00 am

Hi TR,
SWMBO is my respectful and fawning title for my wife.I can get away with this reference in her presence,whereas terms such as "Battleaxe"or "the Dragon"would invoke a most unpleasant reaction followed by a frosty couple of weeks.Forgive me,I'm not familiar with Gene Sheppard.
Superglue is often used to make cracks in natural materials disappear.I use it on dropped,weathered moose antler after dying and am quite pleased with the results.Time will tell,of course,but I have here a moose handled carver I treated about 8 yrs ago,no problems.Spread it very thinly with a latex gloved fingertip and repeat till you have a good buildup.It looks rough at first but will finish out fine.
You are wise to be wary of urethane on bone or antler.A definite faux pas in my opinion.
I only give bone a lengthy dry down period after my dye soak(a full immersion in water soluable aniline dye).Pet store bone is usually well dry and is far more dimensionally stable than either antler or wood.Remember though that bone is brittle,so draw up your pins very gently.
After seeing the superb results of your last project I am impatient to see what you have up your sleeve.I will watch for posts,and contribute where I can.
Regards,Diggaway

Post by **tr4252** » Thu May 27, 2004 3:55 pm

Thank you for the advice and the kind words.

TR

Post by **Wally J. Corpse** » Thu May 27, 2004 4:38 pm

Greetings, Mr. Pushbutton-

I can getcha plenty of ol' bones, some even come with pre-textured non-slip grips of petrified flesh on 'em. Gristle, or extra hair costs extra.

AS ever,

Your ol' pal,

Wally J. Corpse

P.S. Most , oh, okay, all are somewhat scented, but ya' get used to it.

Pushbutton · Post by **Pushbutton** » Fri May 28, 2004 12:32 am

Wally I was grave robbing when you were still in hairshirt diapers. Who do you think taught Eddie the proper digging method.

PB

Post by **tr4252** » Sat May 29, 2004 4:30 pm

I'm in for it soon, no doubt. Yesterday I did the kid in the candy store thing, and ordered a load of bone, horn, and even some elephant ivory from Koval Knives. I was concerned about the ivory, such a big deal seems to be made over it, but I talked on the phone with them and was told it was legal and documented, and that I'd receive copies of the documenttion with the materials. I've little idea what to expect; does anyone here know more about the ivory issue?

Probably the ivory comes from only convicted elephants, or those who've willed their tusks to knifemaking, I hope.

And at the grocery store last night, I bought a dog bone from the pet supplies area, and it's really solid stuff; bleached, dried, sanitized etc., hard like ceramic material. 3 bucks. About enough for 2 sets of scales.

Some fun.

TR