Auto conversion question

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Harkblade
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Auto conversion question

Post by Harkblade »

Hi folks!
I'm brand new to the forum and have been looking around a bit and love the forum.
I have a Gerber Rex Applegate W.E. Fairbairn Mini Covert which presently has just a thumb stud opening system and a frame locking system.
I am very mechanically adept and detail oriented kind of guy that loves to tinker and I'm wondering if it is possible to convert this knife to a
pushbutton automatic. I know the larger version of the same knife is available with the pushbutton automatic feature, but don't want to spend the many dollars to buy one.
I have researched and found where I can purchase springs and button locks, but was wondering if anyone out there has had any experience
with what I am wanting to do and if they can offer any advice.

Thanks a lot in advance for your thoughts.

Harkblade :)
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Pima Pants
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Re: Auto conversion question

Post by Pima Pants »

I am not familiar with the knife you noted and whether or not it has a milled area for the spring. It may if there is an automatic version of it. If it does not, you would need access to the necessary equipment, i.e. a milling machine to do so. There are much more knowledgeable members here who can tell you if such a project is feasible.
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Bill DeShivs
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Re: Auto conversion question

Post by Bill DeShivs »

You have to devise a mechanism to hold the blade closed, and a method to push the blade open.
I have no experience with converting this particular knife, but I do have experience with thousands of knives.
My advice? Don't even try it.
There are many US made automatics. Yes, they are expensive, but not as expensive as ruining a knife you like and expending many hours of time doing it.
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sammy the blade
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Re: Auto conversion question

Post by sammy the blade »

You could just buy one that's automatic.
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TazmanTom
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Re: Auto conversion question

Post by TazmanTom »

Gerber makes this as an auto w/safety. About 150 full retail.
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JimBrown257
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Re: Auto conversion question

Post by JimBrown257 »

That's not the same knife, just one with the spring not installed. It's two fairly different knives. Even if you were able to find someone to convert the manual Gerber (you won't) you'd end up with a knife which, to unlock the blade you'd have to press the button and hold the liner lock down at the same time.
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whippersnapper
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Re: Auto conversion question

Post by whippersnapper »

Not if you make it so the button doesn't lock it open.
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JimBrown257
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Re: Auto conversion question

Post by JimBrown257 »

I guess you could do that, or cut the liner lock off. It probably wouldn't matter as if it isn't already fitted for a coil spring, trying to convert it would mangle it beyond repair.
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whippersnapper
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Re: Auto conversion question

Post by whippersnapper »

I was thinking something different than a typical plunger button.

Just for clarity he said it was a frame lock, not a liner lock. Similar concept but different. Which is it?

I'm not saying it would be possible because I'm not familiar with the knife. Is there enough thickness for some kind of a rocker release like on the old Buck auto? Or the old Smith and wesson hidden button knives. Could a leaf spring be used or would it interfere with the frame lock (It might). I have never owned a frame lock to see clearance. The scale release autos are mostly liner locks and there aren't issues with the leaf spring.

Tank (TBK knives manages to fit a leaf spring release in some pretty tight scales like on the small copperlock conversions...I know they are a different kind of knife but wonder if the same thing could work? Could a leaf spring even be incorporated in what may be an open back frame knife (like I said I don't know exactly what the OP's knife is). Probably be a lot of redesign.

I just think it would be possible with some thinking outside the regular. Probably look like shit and might not be durable. Definately wouldn't be worth the time. A guy would probably screw up a few knives getting it right.

And anyway the OP sounded like he was the one who wanted to attempt the conversion, not pay someone to do it. He says he has skills but is too cheap to buy a factory auto. No shame there- I'm cheap and broke too...lol

My advice is to buy some cheap Chinese autos and take them apart to see how they work. That's basically how we all figured stuff out. Find something easier to convert that you don't have to basically redesign the knife to make work.

PS to Harkblade. JimBrown257 is one of only a couple guys who readily try new things and builds some of the coolest autos I have seen. If he thinks it's almost impossible it probably is.
Harkblade
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Re: Auto conversion question

Post by Harkblade »

whippersnapper wrote: Wed May 29, 2019 1:47 am I was thinking something different than a typical plunger button.

Just for clarity he said it was a frame lock, not a liner lock. Similar concept but different.

I'm not saying it would be possible because I'm not familiar with the knife. Is there enough thickness for some kind of a rocker release like on the old Buck auto? Or the old Smith and wesson hidden button knives. Could a leaf spring be used or would it interfere with the frame lock (It might). I have never owned a frame lock to see clearance. The scale release autos are mostly liner locks and there aren't issues with the leaf spring.

Tank (TBK knives manages to fit a leaf spring release in some pretty tight scales like on the small copperlock conversions...I know they are a different kind of knife but wonder if the same thing could work? Could a leaf spring even be incorporated in what may be an open back frame knife (like I said I don't know exactly what the OP's knife is). Probably be a lot of redesign.

I just think it would be possible with some thinking outside the regular. Probably look like shit and might not be durable. Definately wouldn't be worth the time. A guy would probably screw up a few knives getting it right.

And anyway the OP sounded like he was the one who wanted to attempt the conversion, not pay someone to do it. He says he has skills but is too cheap to buy a factory auto. No shame there- I'm cheap and broke too...lol

My advice is to buy some cheap Chinese autos and take them apart to see how they work. That's basically how we all figured stuff out. Find something easier to convert that you don't have to basically redesign the knife to make work.

PS to Harkblade. JimBrown257 is one of only a couple guys who readily try new things and builds some of the coolest autos I have seen. If he thinks it's almost impossible it probably is.
I used the incorrect terminology. It is a liner lock. Which I believe could be easily removed.
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JimBrown257
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Re: Auto conversion question

Post by JimBrown257 »

A leaf spring would probably be the easiest way to do it. On a lot of manuals, the edge of the closed blade goes all the way to the spine so you have to cut some area out for a kickspring. Because that one doesn't have a traditional backspring, you don't have to worry about doing that as much. But it still might require taking the edge of the blade back a little. Also, the kickspring would have to only go about 1cm when it fires or it will run into the liner lock.

A lever would be the easiest release but the tang is so short that the sear would have to be right under the pivot. Although, since I have started paying attention to AK knives, I realized the sear hole doesn't actually have to be on the tang. It could have a sear hole on the blade, as long as the sear didn't run into the edge of the blade.

It would look pretty absurd but if you had to convert it, like if they were going to kill your family if you didn't, that would be the most feasible way to do it.

All that being said, there are similar manuals that are made for easy conversion. There is an S&W manual (can't remember the name) that has a button and the blade is fitted for a 3/8" coil. I think the handle still needs some space cut out. Those circular drill bits do it pretty easily as the handle is aluminum.
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whippersnapper
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Re: Auto conversion question

Post by whippersnapper »

Yep, it would look goofy.

We all have had knives we loved that we wished were switchblades. My first cub scout knife I wished that emblem was a hidden button...lol

And just for shits and giggles.To make it a plunger button auto, making a new flat liner and replacing the liner lock liner wouldn't be tough. But does the back tang of the manual knife have enough length to do the groove for the plunge button slot? Probably not-maybe- I have no idea. You might have to add metal to get the shape needed. If thats doable you still need to mill out for a coil spring, drill the hole in your blade for the coil end. Then put a hole in the scale for the button and button spring which would look bad because from what I googled the OP's knife handle is slotted. You may as well make a new scales (handles).Next you either have to machine a plunger button or borrow one and spring from another auto. You might even have to loosen the pivot.

If you did have the skills/ability to do all that you still need to figure out where to line everything up correctly so the blade doesn't peek when closed or have up/down play when open.

I hate to discourage anyone from trying to do something but It would be tough in my opinion. A huge pain in the ass.

Buy a cheap 10 dollar button knife and take it a part to see how they work or take JB's advice and buy a button lock knife and see how to install a coil spring. I think there are even some how to videos on youtube. Better yet just bite the bullet and buy a factory built auto in the style you want. There are so many available now you are bound to find something you love, The problem is settling on just one.lol

A $100+ dollars seems like a lot for a knife but if you take care of it it should last a long time. There are also some great autos for way less than a hundred that can be had. The Ganzo's seem to be well liked and some of the Bokers are also great knives.
Harkblade
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Re: Auto conversion question

Post by Harkblade »

I've been looking at the Ganzo's and really like the looks of them, and the quality seems to be top notch as well. One dealer offers Ganzo's for something like $17.50 for the model I like but they are out of them at the moment.
I do have a black Delta Force with a drop point satin blade that I like a lot. It seems to be very similar in construction to Boker and in the same price range, but with 440C stainless instead of the AUS8. Both having aluminum scales, but with the Delta having a convenient thumb activated safety.
I did find a dealer who had Ganzo's in stock but at twice the price of the $17.50 knife. So, I'm going to hold out and wait til they have more in stock.
Fishtail Picklock
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Re: Auto conversion question

Post by Fishtail Picklock »

Harkblade wrote: Wed May 29, 2019 3:58 am I've been looking at the Ganzo's and really like the looks of them, and the quality seems to be top notch as well. One dealer offers Ganzo's for something like $17.50 for the model I like but they are out of them at the moment.
I do have a black Delta Force with a drop point satin blade that I like a lot. It seems to be very similar in construction to Boker and in the same price range, but with 440C stainless instead of the AUS8. Both having aluminum scales, but with the Delta having a convenient thumb activated safety.
I did find a dealer who had Ganzo's in stock but at twice the price of the $17.50 knife. So, I'm going to hold out and wait til they have more in stock.
www.fastech.com
Fishtail Picklock
Harkblade
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Re: Auto conversion question

Post by Harkblade »

Fishtail Picklock wrote: Wed May 29, 2019 5:34 am
Harkblade wrote: Wed May 29, 2019 3:58 am I've been looking at the Ganzo's and really like the looks of them, and the quality seems to be top notch as well. One dealer offers Ganzo's for something like $17.50 for the model I like but they are out of them at the moment.
I do have a black Delta Force with a drop point satin blade that I like a lot. It seems to be very similar in construction to Boker and in the same price range, but with 440C stainless instead of the AUS8. Both having aluminum scales, but with the Delta having a convenient thumb activated safety.
I did find a dealer who had Ganzo's in stock but at twice the price of the $17.50 knife. So, I'm going to hold out and wait til they have more in stock.
www.fastech.com
WOW! Thanks Fishtail! I checked the fastech website just a few days ago and they showed this item as being out of stock. They must have just received an new shipment. As soon as I saw your post I jumped on this immediately and now I have a model G7211-GR in green...ON THE WAY!
THANKS A BUNCH!! :D
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