Defense

[Viking45]

I have been wanting to comment on this subject for eons now.
Many folk here have spoke about weather or not a knife is a self defense weapon.

Personally I see it as an absurdity to view the "knife" as a tool only.
Perhaps because this forum is an Italian Stiletto based forum many feel the knife is an item best left at home.

If a stiletto is your choice of a self defense mechanism then I agree...leave it at home.
Many of of us have "Conceal/Carry" permits.

However many do not always carry or conceal.
I view the knife as a last resort weapon and consider the idea it should be left out of the equation a mistake.

However I do highly recommend taking classes and instructions on using a knife as a weapon in self defense.

In past posts there have been statements made going against the knife as a weapon.
Certainly we/I do not recommend one to use a knife as a sole means to disarm an individual but I strongly recommend you take classes and become familiar with a knife as a self defense tool.

Bottom line,I am a bit put-off that we dismiss the oldest "tool" / "weapon" as a letter opener.
The knife is a formidable weapon and should be thought of as such.


JUST KNOW HOW TO USE THE DAMN THING...AND WHEN & UNDER WHAT CIRCUMSTANCES

[jimbeam]

Well said Dave.

[Viking45]

Well said Dave.

Thanks JB,miss seeing you brother.
Had a bit of JB tonight or I may not have made this post

Just tired of "tip-toeing" around. Sick of the "thin-skinned" society we have become.

[tequiza]

http://www.tspnsports.com/forums/archiv ... 47008.html

[dark2023]

If a stiletto is your choice of a self defense mechanism then I agree...leave it at home.
Many of of us have "Conceal/Carry" permits.

A knife is a pretty ineffective weapon for defense, especially a small thin one like a stiletto. A lot of people who have been stabbed in a fight did not realize at the time that they had been stabbed, instead thinking they had only been punched. Usually a small stab wound to the lower abdomen isn't immediate painful and rarely incapacitating. There is a reason why prisoners shank their each other multiple times. Lastly, knives require one to get rather close to an attacker, this isn't really ever a good idea.

I prefer an expandable baton if one must resort to melee weapons. It gives you length, it's immediately incapacitating, and most courts are going to be a lot more leanient of a guy who fought of an attacker with a baton than one who did so with a knife (especially an "evil switchblade")

[Viking45]

Mr. Dark you make an excellent point and in no way am I saying a knife is a "prime" example self defense weapon.
"Ineffective" Please reevaluate your source my friend.

I am saying as a "last resort" the blade should be taken seriously as a weapon.
I also promote the knife as a weapon be taught by a professional as to how to utilize it.
If you have doubts then by all means disregard the blade as a weapon.

If two or three street thugs have me down kicking my liver into my throat I am going to carve me some rib meat if possible.
A baton is awesome in the hands of an expert but not many street thugs are going to wrap their hands around a razors edge but in fact can get their hands around a stick.
It's the age-old adage- What are you comfortable with?
Even CC has it's limitations. I would rather be overpowered with a knife then have them take my gun.

This is another age-old argument...Gun or knife or bare hands.
I am 6'2" 225 and a large capable man but I have and always felt a knife is a superb back-up plan in the case of "thuggery"

We all have an idea of what we would do in a bad situation and I say do what you feel comfortable with.
Personally I would rather pump a 45 hollow point into my aggressor's bread basket but this may not be the case.
Second choice,I will ram 4 inches of CM154 into his gullet.

[Chrisadamley]

With a bit of trainer i think a knife could be used pretty effectively...don't even need that fancy stuff you see sometimes, just some basic skills i would say.

I saw one video of a guy saying that if they are right up on you, and you slice their forehead...which you wouldn't normally think to go for...but anyways if you slice the forehead its supposed to hurt like a bitch, and BLEED like a bitch. So it wouldn't be a fatal wound, but would easily blind them with so much blood in their eyes.

I do also believe knife fighting should be a last resort. I have seem some nasty nasty pictures of knife wounds around the internet. Its no party.

[dark2023]

Yes, the very fists strike with a knife should be the forehead, it's rarely protected and it makes a great deterrent
If your on the ground the first strike should be the back of the ankles if possbile

Other great areas to aim for wound be the armpit, up through the jaw and the thighs. All of these places have many nerve endings, fairly important organs or arteries and are usually pretty easy targets.

"Ineffective" Please reevaluate your source my friend.

Compared to a baton or a gun, it is. Especially a stiletto. It can work, but it's probably the least effective weapon possible, given the options. The blade isn't thick enough to get enough inertia to cause particularly deep wounds, unless used for stabbing which is slow, and with such a thin blade, snapping it off is a real possibility.

A baton is awesome in the hands of an expert but not many street thugs are going to wrap their hands around a razors edge but in fact can get their hands around a stick.

Good luck with that. How often do you hear a police man say "and then he caught my baton, mid-swing". It's quite difficult and your likely to break fingers trying to do so.

[ILikeStilettos]

All of the back and forth about training and choice of weapon here bespeaks a certain common misunderstanding about the predictable effects of creating a wound in an adversary.

The first thing that you must understand that in a combat situation, most weapons are not intended to produce a fatality. First off, this is politically undesirable when you are portraying the ethics of your particular political position and second, things that create predictable and instantaneous deaths have a tendency to kill bystanders (non-combatants and friendlies). Instead, the typical stated goal is to create casualties. These first remove the enemy combatant's will to continue the fight, by distracting him with pain or blood, and thus reduce his/her combat effectiveness. Additionally, observation of such events by others on the enemy side is demoralizing and creates fear of entering into conflict. Thirdly, it diverts enemy resources to rescue, care for, and treat wounded personnel. Officially, you are trying to remove the enemy's will and ability to fight, not simply take their life.

Now lets consider something called the "trauma triad of death". This triad says that the three sides of the triangle: coagulation, lactic acidosis and myocardial performance are interrelated. Blood loss can impair oxygen delivery leading to chemical imbalance or heart malfunction, for example. Please note that the more obvious effects are on the blood loss side and the others may manifest as physical or psychological effects. This is why some folks die of a non-life threatening gun shot to an arm or leg (OMG, I'm shot, I'm dying) and other horrendous wounds (slit throats, head wounds, amputations) are survivable. A person may literally be cut in half through the mid-pelvis (all the plumbing is gone), but live with assistance for many years.

So, gun or knife, it depends on creating shock in the person and their own reaction to the wound. If the person is already in "fight or flight" mode, ultimately fatal wounds may go unnoticed while the fight continues. Go see "Lone Survivor" - while it isn't precisely accurate, those guys, through training, tune out things that should have taken them out of the fight and they continue to perform their mission. Conversely, slashing a forehead or creating a flesh only gun shot wound may be enough that you can extricate yourself, living, from the encounter. The weapon isn't important, the other guy's reaction to any wounds, or yours, is.

[dark2023]

I would still say that a baton, given the longer reach and severe trauma caused by being hit with one is likely to stop an attacker or at least give him something else to worry about. Broken bones tend to not only hurt but may physically stop an attacker even if he (for some reason (drugs maybe)) was unable to feel the associated pain.


-If I where to hit an attacker in the side of the head, or leg with an expandable baton, in most cases he will be immediately subdued and a strike to the shoulder, arm or ribs will at least slow him down greatly

-A slash wound is not likely to be effective in combat accept in a few specific places, and even then they would usually need to be somewhat deep, stabs are better but slow and require a very close proximity, and again they only work to quickly subdue an attacker if targeted to specific areas

-a gunshot wound from most anything larger than a .25acp will most definitely be noticed and assuming it hits anything center a mass or near the head it will probably also immediately stop the threat.

[Viking45]

Again my point is this- I still feel it is absurd to discount a knife as a weapon.
It is the oldest tool/weapon on the planet and I once read that knives are one of the most widely produced and owned items of all time.
Most households have 2 cars but may have as many as 12 knives.
Even 3rd world,poverty stricken homes have at least two knives.

I simply started this post to make a statement about the importance of the blade.
I have always agreed that a club,axe handle,baseball bat or any like object would be my second choice of a weapon in the case of basic self defense against street thugs,drunk idiots or being out numbered...first choice being a 1911 45 ACP.

But anyway back to the subject,I have and always will consider a knife as a tool first but will never disregard it as a weapon.
Hell if a cop pulled you over,searched you and found your Buck 110 do you think he's going to call it a tool?
If the knife was such a poor choice of weapon for self defense then about 45 million of us have it all wrong.

Fact is I am seriously considering buy an ASP baton. Wish I would have bought one when they first came out for about 30 bucks.

[dark2023]

Fact is I am seriously considering buy an ASP baton. Wish I would have bought one when they first came out for about 30 bucks.

I would look into a monadnock autolock instead, better made, tougher, and they dont randomly close when in use. The only real issue is that they tend to be a little longer when closed than ASP batons of the same length

Again my point is this- I still feel it is absurd to discount a knife as a weapon.

I agree, a knife CAN make a good weapon. They definitely have proven to be so in the past and probably will again in the future.

It is the oldest tool/weapon on the planet and I once read that knives are one of the most widely produced and owned items of all time.

Also one of the most useful tools, a gun only has maybe 3 uses, a baton or cane, maybe 3 or 4. But a good, well-made, knife can be used for damn near anything.
When was the last time you opened a paint can or removed a splinter with a pistol?

Most households have 2 cars but may have as many as 12 knives.

If you count steak knives and other kitchen cutlery that number more than triples

[JerrBear]

Mr. Viking,

I highly recommend you get a spring-loaded baton. I have one and the power is unbelievable. It deploys with such force I think it could kill someone if directed at someone's noggin upon opening.

Not only that, but the COOLNESS factor is plenty high...

Alas, I can't find mine right newness, so I can't tell you who makes them...
I purchased mine many years ago from a member here. I don't know iff'n he still has any, but, if not, he might could tell you the manufacturer and mayhap even where you can get one. PM me or email me if you're interested...

[Viking45]

Thanks Jerr,I will look into that.
Still thinking real hard about traveling out West to see you and maybe that trouble-maker Bonz.
Maybe he can buzz over on his scooter and visit for a bit.

[dark2023]

I highly recommend you get a spring-loaded baton. I have one and the power is unbelievable. It deploys with such force I think it could kill someone if directed at someone's noggin upon opening.

Not only that, but the COOLNESS factor is plenty high...

I've always wanted one of those auto-batons but had never seen a review until now so I wasent sure of the quality. If it's even half as awesome as you claim it to be then I will definitely have to look into one of those.