Bullet bounced off this deer!!

[old_red_eye]

I got my deer this week, here's the short story......

I'm standing in the woods that were cut last year, a small semi-clear area about 1/4 mile across,
when a sleeping deer awakes and bolts from my right across in front of me at about 75 yards.
I see instantly it has horns.

Since it's kind of bushy I have about 3 seconds until it steps into an open area between
two trees. My shot should have hit it directly in the heart but it doesn't even break stride
but picks up it's pace and turns directly towards me. Obviously it doesn't know I'm there.

I am watching it through the scope as it's running toward me with it's head down.
When it lifts its head, it gets one through the throat and drops in a pile.
It has landed 25 feet in front of me dead.

When I check it, sure enough it has a hole from the first shot just 2" above the heart.
So at the time I figure the first shot would have done it in shortly but it's a different story
when I'm quartering it up later.

The bullet actually hit a rib and punched a large 2" hole through it so it looked like it went inside.
But on closer inspection I found the bullet 3" away from the hole in the meat.

So the bullet actually bounced off the rib and did very little damage. I think the deer
may have recovered from the wound since it was not bleeding and only one broken rib.

This was a 220 lb 6-point buck taken with a 30.30.

[Vagrant]

It's very likely the bullet cut some brush/tree limb on the way to the deer

[old_red_eye]

I'll have to disagree with you there Vagrant.

It was a clear shot, no trees or bushes, I checked.

I almost always hunt deer with a 30.30 (sometimes a 22.250) but I usually tell the big gun
hunters I would rather carry the 30.30 all day than a .308 anytime because both do the
same job. But maybe I'm wrong.



I just prefer the feel of the old Winchester in my hand.

[Vagrant]

Something HAD to happen, that is not normal for a .30-30 It wouldn't surprise me at all with the .22-250 it's almost a classic small caliber/light bullet failure for something under .25 caliber. Especially at short range.

[natcherly]

Bullets sometimes do strange things. Physics predicts what should happen to a small body moving at high velocity. However adding a small external "nudge" into the equation can have an impact seemingly all out of proportion to the force applied.

Maybe those deer were taking calcium supplements.

[Bowtuner]

In all my days of hunting I have seen many strange things hapen and this story is very likely true. I once shot a rabbit with a feildpointed arrow out of a 270 fps bow at less than twenty yards. I hit this rabbit deadon in the forehead and the arrow bounced off. The rabbit hopped away like nothing happened. I know you may be saying that I'm crazy, blind, or just a damn lier but I had witness's at the time this happened. If you told me this story I would not believe it either but I swear it happened. If you believe the Kennedy Asassination magic bullet theory, you have to believe these. I don't believe the magic bullet theory by the way.

[Vagrant]

There are lots of mysteries but no impossibles when it come to bullets. Something [wrong] happened. Finding what happened may be almost impossible and not worth the effort. The "magic bullet" is also doubtful but if we concede there were 3 seperate hits [maybe 4 total shots] the possibility two people could do it approaches certainty. It's possible one person could fire 4 shots IF we allow for reaction times to vary from the apparent visible reaction times on the film. I doubt any shooter could dublicate the identical shots. But many shooters could put three shots into a target equal to the dimensions of the limos interior with pure chance deciding where those three shots land. The results would be different every time. If the shooter only intended to land the bullets somewhere in the limo and didn't care about results [other than scaring the hell out of the occupants] it could be done with a handgun. Duplicating the hits isn't required if the shooter only intended to hit the limo and didn't care beyond that. He met his goals why should we expect the same results. ALL the experts have always assumed he wanted to make certain hits and have never even considered his goals may have been much less than that A lot of time has been wasted trying to duplicate what happened instead of what was intended

[Bowtuner]

By stating that I didn't believe the magic bullet theory did not mean that I didn't think it could happen. I think if Oswald had been the lone shooter he would have taken his shots way before the limo turned off Houston St. onto Elm St. into Dealey Plaza. Ther was no reason for him to have waited. His best shot would have been on Houston St. and even if he still missed there The limo would have had to continue into Dealey Plaza offereing more shooting opportunities. This tragic time in our history will be debated for years to come or untill something comes along that reveals the truth once and for all. Everything about Oswald being the lone shooter is nearly laughable if it wasn't so tragic. The gun he used, the way the scope was mounted, off the counter cheap ammunition, the fact that his shots have never been duplicated with some of the best marksmen of our time, all of this and he still had time to get downstairs without breaking a sweat and comfortably sit down and have a coke. If I were going after someone as important as the President of our country or any one for that matter I would definately use the best rifle I could lay my hands on, even during that time there were a great many american and foreign made sniper rifles easily obtainable to the public, I would have visited my local firing range with hand loaded ammunition of different loads to find out which would be the best through my rifle, at the same time I would have mounted the best scope I could find at the time and zeroed it in at lets say within 2" at 200 yards. I would have fired ONE shot to the forehead and then got the hell out of there instead of taking time to sit down for a coke. I'm not an assassin but I do have common sence. This was all a big coverup and though I think Oswald was involved I do not think he made the kill shot. He just got the credit and when he didn't want the credit they shot him too. Then when the man who shot him, Jack Ruby, wanted to come clean, he was whacked too. In fact so many people that where involved with the Kennedy Assassination died under strange circumstances that the odds of it happening were so astounding it is unbelievable. Now see what you done, you got me started and I can't stop. Sorry for getting of the subject and for making this post so long. The Kennedy assassination has always been a subject of great interest to me since I was old enough to spell government coverup. Don't even get me started on the Warren Commission. Theres a group of trustworthy individuals if there ever was one. Go look at the names that made up that group and you will see what I mean.

[Bowtuner]

After going back and reading some of the post here I wanted to add that the 30-30 was designed as a brush gun to begin with. Small treelimbs would have not effected the bullet at that range. More deer have ben layed in the back of trucks due to a 30-30 than all other rifles combined. I grew up hunting with one and still own one today but no longer hunt with a rifle. My wife on the other hand does still hunt with a rifle and does so with a Marlin 45/70 of the same style as the 30-30. the ultimate brush gun!
I've seen her knock deer off their feet at 50 yards and we've also had to track a few down that where good shots but very strong willed deer. You never know whats gonna happen with deer, your gun, or your ammunition. Oil from the rifles action could have possibly leaked into the bullets primer due to the bullet being old, or if the bullet was a handload it could have been contaminated or even if it was a factory load it would have been possible. Things like this are what makes my heart pound when I hunt and make for great stories when you're sitting around the cabin. When you take all the things that can go wrong out of the picture and hunting becomes a certainty then this hunter will hang up his bow because where is the anticipation or the excitement in 100% perfect hunting.

[Vagrant]

"that his shots have never been duplicated with some of the best marksmen of our time"
That's the mental hang-up duplicating the shot. Everyone thinks because a certain shot was made that is the shot that was intended If the only intention was to hit somewhere in the limo, that's easy to accomplish:idea: If you try it ten times you'll hit ten differnt places but you won't be able to duplicate any of them
[actually the KGB had several people who COULD duplicate the shot].

[Bowtuner]

So you are saying that there was no intended target, that Oswald or whoever was just shooting into the limo hopeing to hit something and that the shot can never be duplicated because you can't duplicate something that was unintentional? You and I are going to have alot of fun with this one. We ought to open it up in a new post though so all can jump on this.

[butch]

I used to hunt with a 30-30 and they done do much damage to the deer its always a clean kill.I shot my first buck through the lungs with the 30-30 and didnt even know where I hit him until I skinned him.Congrats on get your deer.

[Vagrant]

The terminal performance of projectiles is not a science. There are far too many variables to ever establish even a "usually" rule. "Common sense, logic, and personal experiences" all are meaningless to anyone who has another opinion or experience
The .30-30 is the classic brushgun BUT the oldtimers who gave it that term, meant; a light, handy, carbine that is easy to CARRY in heavy brush. . Less experienced hunters assumed the term described the ability to "cut through" that brush. If that were true, the .45-70 would be far better. The real champ should be the 12 guage slug BUT in inproptu tests conducted by various people, performance through brush pile or carefully arranged dowels, all rounds were unpredictable Careful reading between the lines did provide some shocks. In one case the "winner" [over even the mighty 12] was the .264 Winchester. Another test the "least defected" round was the 6.5x55 Swede Hmmmm both measure the same .264. In my OPINION the ogive and meplat of the bullet MAY be more important than has been suspected I have seen a .30-06 shoot through 3 telephone poles, when hit "dead center" I have alsao followed it's meandering path through brush when it "just nicked" a 1" sapling
There are NO absolutes on his one, believe whatever you feel most comfortable with, you are as "right" as the next guy

[butch]

you are right with that post al,I still use my 30-30 when Im hunting in the thick brush my 30-06 is much longer and it tends to hit trees in thick brush.
I like my 30-06 for a long field shot but for heavy brush Ill go with the 30-30 every time.