Flat button on the handle

[lookalot1234]

I have noticed that on some switchblades the round button is flattened a bit. Does this indicate a rare or higher quality knife?

[monstro]

Nope.

But flat buttons are generally less common, which means makers can charge a premium.

[natcherly]

The first flat buttons were introduced in the Walt's Flatquard knives of about 7 years ago. They were high quality knives made by Frank Beltrame. Since then, Frank has used that style of button on several other stilettos and even swinguards. As monstro noted, they in and of themselves do not necessarily mean the knife is of higher quality, but they can be. Don't know if I would pay more for a flat button vs a rounded given that the quality was the same.

[lookalot1234]

Thanks Natcherly and Monstro , I do like the look of the flattened button and I will try to pick one up when I see one.

[METALGOD]

natch the very first flat buttons were made by Frank but were on swinguards , the (wsb) stamped swings were first to have the flat buttons . Frank still uses them every now and then but not much lately . me personally dont like them they just dont look right to me .
Thanks Bernie *** Folgore Knives USA ***

[natcherly]

natch the very first flat buttons were made by Frank but were on swinguards , the (wsb) stamped swings were first to have the flat buttons . Frank still uses them every now and then but not much lately . me personally dont like them they just dont look right to me .
Thanks Bernie *** Folgore Knives USA ***

Hey Bernie, you might check your info. I have a set of Walt's Flatguards with flat buttons produced in 2006. The first swinguard flat buttons were produced a few months later by Frank for Keith Newman who stopped payment on them and some other items as they were not want he thought he ordered. I also have a set of those. There was a HUGH stink in the community about what Newman did, putting Frank in a difficult situation, etc. We all learned that even if you send someone a "Cashier's check", the issuer can STILL stop payment which is what Newman did. Who says this hobby has no educational value?

[METALGOD]

natch the very first flat buttons were made by Frank but were on swinguards , the (wsb) stamped swings were first to have the flat buttons . Frank still uses them every now and then but not much lately . me personally dont like them they just dont look right to me .
Thanks Bernie *** Folgore Knives USA ***

Hey Bernie, you might check your info. I have a set of Walt's Flatguards with flat buttons produced in 2006. The first swinguard flat buttons were produced a few months later by Frank for Keith Newman who stopped payment on them and some other items as they were not want he thought he ordered. I also have a set of those. There was a HUGH stink in the community about what Newman did, putting Frank in a difficult situation, etc. We all learned that even if you send someone a "Cashier's check", the issuer can STILL stop payment which is what Newman did. Who says this hobby has no educational value?

not sure if you remember Brad skipper (wsb) he was first to do the flat buttons on the 11" swinguards with Frank back in 2003 -2004. i remember him explaining to me (over phone) how the flat buttons were made. i guess Frank cam up with idea to Double stamp the buttons thus making them flat , 1 stamping makes them the traditional round style but 2 stampings and it flattens dome out making button flat at top. i know all about Keith , Brad was in buisness with Frank way before Keith.

[natcherly]

I am currently traveling. When I get back and access my records and knives, we can continue this discussion. I know I have the hardware that supports my position, but my dates may be off. Also, a lot of what Brad Skipper had to say on just about any subject was prone to self aggrandizement.

[natcherly]

OK, now I have my records in front of me to refresh my failing memory.

Walt's flatguard came out in July 2004.That was the first appearance of the flat button on any knife, except perhaps for some customs, but I've not seen any. These were numbered with separate sequences for each of the famous three scales available at that time, Stag, Light Horn and Dark Horn. Walt encouraged the purchase of sets of the same number in each scale option.

In December of that year the Keith Newman swinguards came out. They were advertised as "square buttons". They were not, they were flat buttons. These knives too came in the three scale flavors, however the numbering on these was extremely weird (S78, B39, etc.) There was no way to put together a set with the same numbers on each scale type. The communication between Newman and Frank were obviously fatally flawed. These misrepresentations and problems resulted in a great hue and cry among the buyers. Keith was compelled to provide full refunds or give back discounts on the prices paid. He then stiffed Frank and war was on.

At some point between those dates in 2004 Skipper makes an appearance, but he is not the first to offer flat buttoned swingers. It is into 2005 before that happens, but many of his swinguards do sport the flat button until he suffers meltdown in late 2007 and disappears.

[lookalot1234]

WOW, You Guy know your history. I really enjoyed reading your posts. It's the kind of history I probably won't forget. Thanks you two ,Natcherly and Metalgod

[METALGOD]

OK, now I have my records in front of me to refresh my failing memory.

Walt's flatguard came out in July 2004.That was the first appearance of the flat button on any knife, except perhaps for some customs, but I've not seen any. These were numbered with separate sequences for each of the famous three scales available at that time, Stag, Light Horn and Dark Horn. Walt encouraged the purchase of sets of the same number in each scale option.

In December of that year the Keith Newman swinguards came out. They were advertised as "square buttons". They were not, they were flat buttons. These knives too came in the three scale flavors, however the numbering on these was extremely weird (S78, B39, etc.) There was no way to put together a set with the same numbers on each scale type. The communication between Newman and Frank were obviously fatally flawed. These misrepresentations and problems resulted in a great hue and cry among the buyers. Keith was compelled to provide full refunds or give back discounts on the prices paid. He then stiffed Frank and war was on.

At some point between those dates in 2004 Skipper makes an appearance, but he is not the first to offer flat buttoned swingers. It is into 2005 before that happens, but many of his swinguards do sport the flat button until he suffers meltdown in late 2007 and disappears.

Hi Natch ill have to emal Frank on this cause i still remember the 11" swinguard as being the first to sport the flat button, if you say walts flatguard picklocks came out in 2004 then it was 2003 or earlier that Frank was in buisness with skipper and this is when the first flat button swinguards were made. i could be wrong will let you know what Frank says. there was a time when all the 11" swinguards from Frank had flat buttons only , i remember trying to order some with traditional round/dome style buttons but Frank was only making them with flatbuttons which alot of people did not like so i didnt order any. brad did a few large runs of swinguards with Frank and im pretty sure they were all flatbuttons. i went into buisness with Frank in 2005 , walter in 2004 , i know for sure Brad was in buisness with Frank before me and walter were.
Thanks bernie

[METALGOD]

Hi i finally contacted Frank and was told (Brads swinguards was first then walters picklocks second ). so it was the 11" swinguards which sported the flat buttons first probably sometime around 2002- 2003. i remember the flat button swings well and did not really like them but some collectors did , i personally like old style dome top chrome or polished stainless buttons.
Thanks Bernie ** Folgore Knives USA **

[natcherly]

If that is what Frank remembers, well who's to argue. I know I have Frank swingers before the Newman fiasco, and they are dome top. The flat tops start appearing in my collection after Walt's Flatguard and after Newman.

Bernie, do you know when Frank took over the production of the 11" swingers? It had to have been in the 2003 timeframe. SKM was not offering swingers around then due to "quality" concerns. The ones available before Frank were characterized by floating guards that were not symmetrical - one side stuck out further that the other. Someone was even selling guard kits that were properly drilled so that when installed the guard would be centered.

Someone out to write a book about recent Maniago production while the info is reasonably fresh. Forty years from now will be too late...

[Nemo Knives]

Hi i finally contacted Frank and was told (Brads swinguards was first then walters picklocks second ). so it was the 11" swinguards which sported the flat buttons first probably sometime around 2002- 2003. i remember the flat button swings well and did not really like them but some collectors did , i personally like old style dome top chrome or polished stainless buttons.
Thanks Bernie ** Folgore Knives USA **

Hey Bernie,I don't mean to step on your toes here,but I believe italy got the idea for the flat buttons from some of the manglers in the late 90s. We started creating those by grinding the tops of standard stiletto buttons like the top one in this pic.......Nemo

[orangeboy]

The flat buttons on Maniago made stilettos goes way back to the ones
made by a group of makers under the name Societa Cooperativa which
began making the first stilettos in 1887 through 1907.

Everything we know about stilettos started here including
the flat buttons.